Curse

The Josip · Feb 22, 2010, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's Box

Buff interrupt skills so that they also have extra benefit for the party when they succesfully interrupt.

Yes but, ever tried interruptions in hard mode?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Assumption 1 many players think DPS is the only important thing in the entire game
Assumption 2 the only consideration for the other classes is whether or not they can increase the DPS of their main character.
This in my opinion is the reason mesmers are not often used.

You forgot:
Assumption 3: gremlin understand the game

You tell us what is important in the game then, how fast you can drain monster energy? Mesmers win hand's down.

Oh wait, mission failed.

Go do Vizunah square hard mode with a mesmer build that you're pretending is important, and then do Vizunah HM with a necro. Good luck getting masters with a mesmer if you're going to spend 5 min on each mob, casting migraine, or perhaps energy draining, or blackouting.

Necro can block better than mesmer, that's a fact and sad one at that. There's a reason why people take curse necro with Enfeebling etc instead of Mesmer with Ineptitude. [/b]Even mesmer henchman is using a necro skill ![/b]

ANYTHING YOU CAN DO...

Gill Halendt · Feb 22, 2010, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Go do Vizunah square hard mode with a mesmer build that you're pretending is important, and then do Vizunah HM with a necro. Good luck getting masters with a mesmer if you're going to spend 5 min on each mob, casting migraine, or perhaps energy draining, or blackouting.

Sorry, but my Mesmer is Legendary Guardian, every mission bar the Eternal Grove done H/H. Never used any of the common team builds around: just went out with an average Fire Ele (Sousuke), a Minion Bomber (Olias) and a simple WoH hybrid monk (Dunkoro). Hencies usually being one of the Warriors available, the Earth Ele when available and 2 more Monks. That's with the good 'ol henchies bars. Never had a problem.

You see, mine wasn't even a well optimized team (2 Eles, 3 Monks). I never found myself spending 5 minutes on anything...

BlackSephir · Feb 22, 2010, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by market

I have mesmer and its one of my best pve chars... ppl who qq about mesmers just cant do builds without pvxwiki

Never been to hard mode, huh?

upier · Feb 22, 2010, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Never been to hard mode, huh?

Nah, the question should have been if the guy never was in HM on an assassin. Or a warrior. Or a ritualist. Or a necro. Or even a paragon.
But mostly on the first one.

miriforst · Feb 22, 2010, 03:41 PM // 15:41

i agree on that arenanet seems to think that powercreep is ftw
the problem is high-end, which is where everyone plays nowadays and using interrupts, even tease and cof in places like uw when the dryders now spawns as hoardes and it looks like it would be the ideal situation for for it, it fails because of long recharges and the fact that there is rarely situations where you encounter enemies with only one powerfull key skill, and that dosent shrug with its shoulder after a interrupt and then continues to smack your face.

except when facing foes such as kanaxai who "hints" a bit theres no reason of bringing those tons of enchantement removal skills (both elites and normal).
they may be niche in pvp but is unplayable in pve.
okay, shatter enchantement, but what with shatter storm, air of disenchantement and you name it.

they are godlike in pvp using skills such as *cough* visions of regret *cough* but could deserve more utility such as daze and other conditions to full take advantage of skills like extend conditions and fevered dreams.

i have played FD in pvp and found its aoe blind and dazed when used with glyph of imolation and steam highly amusing, but its realy odd to see a lot of mesmer skills relying on conditions (ofc sec proffesion buildwars) when they themselves have only deep wound (2 skills) and cracked armor (after a 10 sec hex) but is hard to combine for the short daze "wildfire".

aspi · Feb 22, 2010, 03:50 PM // 15:50

It might be a good idea for the dev team to team up with some of the high end pve/pvp guild to learn some things about the game they make. Looks like it wouldn't hurt tp see why some professions are not used there.

I can see how balancing these kind of things is probably one of the most difficult parts of the game, and maybe they can learn a few things for the next game

Essence Snow · Feb 22, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Really enjoying this thread! Mesmer's trying to have a voice and a few ppl kicking them while they are down. While yes mesmers and dervs can complete the game, they both depend more on team set up than individual set up. I.E. your build doesnt really matter b/c your team (with h/h or ppl) can do it just the same w/o you. I love my mesmer...not b/c she is balanced/fun to play/casts fast.....but b/c she has max armor panties. I mean what else is she good for? It's widely accepted that mesmers are the black sheep of PvE. I just find it funny while they run the race in last place a few bystanders spit on them. For what reason idk, maybe they have other issues and are displacing their feelings on mesmers.

drkn · Feb 22, 2010, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Sorry, but my Mesmer is Legendary Guardian, every mission bar the Eternal Grove done H/H. Never used any of the common team builds around: just went out with an average Fire Ele (Sousuke), a Minion Bomber (Olias) and a simple WoH hybrid monk (Dunkoro). Hencies usually being one of the Warriors available, the Earth Ele when available and 2 more Monks. That's with the good 'ol henchies bars. Never had a problem.

it's because typical pve content, even hm, is easy as hell. especially with heroes and pve skills.
i've managed to kill mallyx with just one another player and six heroes. i've been on the mesmer. the sad thing is - i had NO mesmer skill on my tab, but used three pve skills and imitated an elementalist (wards for def, meteor & maelstrom for interrupts - cause it's easier to interrupt as an ele than as a mesmer). and to be clear - i've tried to use several various builds that included being mesmery there, all of them were either useless or inferior to going /ele option.
mesmer females have the best looking armors in the game, imho, but that's all they are better at.

enter_the_zone · Feb 22, 2010, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Mesmers clearly needed buffing more than necros.

That said, in terms of heroes, VoR + 5 interrupts (2 of which are also e-mgmt) + 1 e-mgmt + fast cast rez is better in HM than SS necro.

Gill Halendt · Feb 22, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

it's because typical pve content, even hm, is easy as hell. especially with heroes and pve skills.

That's sort of a contraddiction.

What's the problem with Mesmers then? They rule PvP and PvE is easy as hell whatever your profession is.

Is this just a matter of "big numbers" again?

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 22, 2010, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Never been to hard mode, huh?

I take an interrupt mesmer hero with me sometimes. Does well on Hard Mode. Interrupts many of the more dangerous spells from monsters, such as Mark of Rodgort, Searing Flames, Savannah Heat. Also helps shut down enemy healers for faster kills.

drkn · Feb 22, 2010, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

What's the problem with Mesmers then? They rule PvP and PvE is easy as hell whatever your profession is.

Is this just a matter of "big numbers" again?

read topics about mesmers again, slowly and carefully this time. it WAS pointed out many times what's wrong with them and that it's NOT about damage. you're just another person ignoring everything that doesn't fit your way of thinking and i won't repeat everything here yet again, sorry - if you want to participate in a discussion regarding something, first get some knowledge of the topic.

cthulhu reborn · Feb 22, 2010, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I just feel that mesmer heroes specifically in HM get targetted very quickly and have too little defense to deal with that added attention from enemy mobs. So they die too quickly really.
They can do some good interrupting but then so can rangers and at least they have better armour and such. Not saying a mesmer is all bad at all but to reduce a mesmer to an interrupter only I think would make the class superfluous as rangers can interrupt more than plenty.
I would think that mesmers need to have more of a view over the whole enemy party to be really effective. This is something the AI doesn't really do that well with. Sure a mesmer can shut down an enemy ele for some time but when there are 3 enemy eles then what?
In that sense a mesmer is better as a player where the necro's are better heroes. Still, blood magic needed fixing and I think that is an easier fix than messing with the mesmer line ups.

Gill Halendt · Feb 22, 2010, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

read topics about mesmers again, slowly and carefully this time. it WAS pointed out many times what's wrong with them and that it's NOT about damage. you're just another person ignoring everything that doesn't fit your way of thinking and i won't repeat everything here yet again, sorry - if you want to participate in a discussion regarding something, first get some knowledge of the topic.

First: calm down
Second: calm down
Third: read the whole thread you've probably skipped just because you think you're right and no one else is - I've replied more than once and I've been pretty clear so far, and, how ironic, we probably agree about this topic. If there's anyone "ignoring everything that doesn't fit his way of thinking", that's you.
Fourth: Learn to read better, since you obviously misuderstood my post. I'll try rephrasing my last message you didn't bother reading, maybe you'll get it this time. If PvE is that "easy", as everyone says, than why bothering? Any class would equally go through anything with ease and there shouldn't be a problem with Mesmers. But there obviously is. PvE being "easy" isn't an excuse for classes being subpar and not getting attention.

Smarty · Feb 22, 2010, 05:35 PM // 17:35

It's not hard to go through PvE and get GWAMM on a mesmer, particularly if hero/henching or going with friends/guildies. It *is* hard to carry on beyond Legendary Guardian/Vanquisher and do high-end PvE on said mesmer, or to get into a PUG for ZQs etc on one.

Yelling @ Cats · Feb 22, 2010, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Fast Casting should work as an Expertise, lowering energy cost for MESMER skills.

Alternatively, it should decrease the recharge of MESMER skills along with casting time.

The Josip · Feb 22, 2010, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

You see, mine wasn't even a well optimized team (2 Eles, 3 Monks). I never found myself spending 5 minutes on anything...

I couldnt help notice you used necro hero but not mesmer hero. Perhaps because that minion bomber necro is 5x better than any mesmer hero you could bring. And so is Discorder, and so is NRt. ANYTHING YOU CAN DO...

Also, what mesmer build did you use? Post one.

Quote:

Sorry, but my Mesmer is Legendary Guardian

Your're missing the point. It's not impossible for a mesmer to do mission X. But he's going to be less effective, ie will take more time to do it, or with more difficulty etc.

What I'm trying to say is, you can finish any mission by taking empty skillbar and just letting your HH do everything. It does not tell anything about how good mesmer is comparable to other classes.

You're simply taking a flawed principle:
Your mesmer vs mission: your mesmer wins, ergo mesmer is fine.

The rest of us are doing:
Mesmer vs ProfessionX: ProfessionX does it better, ergo mesmer isn't fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enter the zone

That said, in terms of heroes, VoR + 5 interrupts (2 of which are also e-mgmt) + 1 e-mgmt + fast cast rez is better in HM than SS necro.

1. Why would you even use SS on a necro hero. My necro heroes use either Discord or AotL as elite, and each of them is going to be 5x better than that Mesmer hero build with VoR and 5 interrupts.

2. NMe interrupt build will do better than Me interrupt build. Try it. ANYTHING YOU CAN DO...

Gill Halendt · Feb 22, 2010, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

You're simply taking a flawed principle:
Your mesmer vs mission: your mesmer wins, ergo mesmer is fine.

No, I was just replying to you spending 5 minutes killing anything while failing @ getting Masters in Vizunah Square.

I made it multiple times, often with sub-optimal setups. Just that. That's because Mesmers are just fine at most of the things you can do in this game. They're admitedly subpar, often "barely average", but nowhere "not fine".

That doesn't mean Mesmers couldn't use a buff.

PS - While I'm all for more fairness, this bias toward "efficiency" is getting my nerves. Heck, this is a game. Try playing just for fun once in a while.

The Josip · Feb 23, 2010, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

No, I was just replying to you spending 5 minutes killing anything while failing @ getting Masters in Vizunah Square.

That was a reply to something else.

Quote:

They're admitedly subpar, often "barely average"

Defense rests.

Quote:

PS - While I'm all for more fairness, this bias toward "efficiency" is getting my nerves. Heck, this is a game. Try playing just for fun once in a while.

Efficient is fun. Take a ranger and put all nature rituals on your skillbar. Then each time you fight a mob spend 5 minutes casting those spirits which.. won't do much.

Fun? No, not really.

Shriketalon · Feb 23, 2010, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Efficient is fun. Take a ranger and put all nature rituals on your skillbar. Then each time you fight a mob spend 5 minutes casting those spirits which.. won't do much.

That reminds me.

Why is it that they increased the spirit summoning capabilities of the ritualist, decreased cast times across the board, buffed levels, gave them new effects......but all the ranger spirits still fail?

Can we add Nature Rituals to the Great Big List Of Things That Fail And Need Attention? Barrage alone shouldn't be the only things rangers can do.